AnnMarie wrote: Things from FAIR make me uneasy
I don't believe Joseph borrowed truth from the masons. I believe the truth existed in the masons because they are a remaining vestige of temple ceremonies that Moses had instituted. Joseph was just restoring the truths that were here once before. I am one of those he pokes fun of for looking around to find explanations because I believe (as did some of my religion teachers) that the truths we find in other religions and in ancient findings are indeed remaining truths from Christ's church which had been brought forth through Adam, Moses, and Abraham. I don't like his tone that those of us who believe that way are "scrambling frantically" or are not experiencing "real humility and generosity of spirit to be taught." By being taught reformed Egyptian and Hebrew, I don't think Joseph was acknowledging that it was needed to then borrow from others, I think it was so he could understand what truths had once been here and find them again.
Just my humble opinion.
Myrna Trauntvein wrote:
An article: "When Souls Had Wings: What the Western Tradition Has to teach Us About Pre-Existence," by Professor Terryl Givens, printed by FAIR, was the conversation topic among some of the ladies at the temple when they were eating in the lunchroom. I think I do not even begin to understand. However, this does make sense as stated in paragraph two: "The Restoration is neither full nor complete. Brigham once said, in reference to the keys of resurrection, 'This is one of the ordinances we can not receive here, and there are many more.'"
The paragraph immediately following, out of a long article, is the most objectionable paragraph and does not appear to have credit. We can bear testimony of Joseph Smith and that he served as the prophet, seer and revelator who talked with our Savior and saw Him face to face on more than one occasion. Why would anyone in communication with Christ need to borrow any information from any source. He had a direct line.
"What if, instead of scrambling frantically to find explanations when Joseph appears to have borrowed from the masons, or Ethan Smith, or Tom Dick, we instead see another marvelous possibility of his actually practicing what he preached: As Brigham characterized his position, 'If you can find a truth in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine. We believe it; it is ours; we claim it.' It takes real humility and generosity of spirit to be taught. Our contemporary condescension in this regard was clearly foreign to a prophet who showed the world he could translate gold plates written in Reformed Egyptian [only by revelation], then hired a Jewish schoolmaster to teach him Hebrew."
Re-reading the material, I agree totally with AnnMarie.
I would like all to read what AnnMarie wrote. I wish she had been there for the original conversation. Sometimes I just read, wonder and ponder and don't think as deeply as I should. Thanks AnnMarie.
We should also consider the words which follow:
“What Hath God Wrought through His Servant Joseph!” BY PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY, bears testimony of the greatness of Joseph Smith.
"The words of William W. Phelps’s great hymn always stir me: “Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah! Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation, kings shall extol him, and nations revere” (“Praise to the Man,” Hymns, number 27).
"The life and ministry of the Prophet Joseph Smith are indeed the substance of great things and remarkable events. They have created a legacy that will continue to increase among mankind. He was the Lord’s latter-day servant who was chosen to bear witness anew of the resurrected Christ.
"To a world plagued with doubt over the actuality of the Resurrection, Joseph Smith testified unequivocally of the risen, living Christ. That testimony was spoken in many ways and under many circumstances.
"First, he spoke out of the experience of his incomparable vision of the Father and the Son, whom he both saw and heard. They were individual personages of form and substance, of body and voice. They spoke with him as one man speaketh with another (see Ex. 33:11).
"Secondly, as the instrumentality through which came the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith has borne witness of the Savior to all who have read and will read that volume. Its constantly recurring message is a testimony of the promised Messiah who came to earth and gave his life for the sins of all mankind and who rose triumphant from the grave as “the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Cor. 15:20).
"Thirdly, Joseph Smith bore witness of the living Lord through the church which carries the name of Jesus Christ. Its members are expected by precept and example to bear witness of Him in whose name they meet and serve.
"Fourthly, Joseph Smith testified of the risen Lord when by the power of his prophetic office he spoke these remarkable words:
“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).
Finally, he sealed that testimony with his life’s blood, dying a martyr to the truths of which he had spoken concerning the Redeemer of the world, in whose name he had carried on his ministry.
"The Prophet Joseph Smith was a preeminent witness of the living Christ."
